When DTM appeared, the sound of live performances did not disappear from everyday.When the vocaloid appeared, human singing did not disappear from everyday.So, will human music disappear when artificial intelligence starts composing?The answer lies in our daily life, which has already benefited from AI in improving the quality of life.
In this Moricatron AI Laboin Tabi, the role -playing game for Nintendo Switch (2018, Square Enix) and the smartphone application "OCTOPATH TRAVELER Continent Continental Continent" (2020, Square Enix).With Yasuichi Nishiki as a guest, the essence of song making that is completely different between console games and smartphone games, why some JRPG game music makes players feel nostalgia, and the future where creators can be happy with AI automatic songs.I heard.The listener is Yukito Morikawa, director of Moricatron AI Lab and Mirei Takahashi, editor -in -chief.
Magical sound to plant nostalgia
Mirei Takahashi (hereinafter Takahashi): First of all, please tell me from the reason Nishiki wants to be a musician.
Yasuichi Nishiki (hereinafter referred to as Nishiki): I first touched the music when I started learning the piano when I was five, but at that time I was not working seriously at all.I started studying properly when I was 12 years old, and I was influenced by his favorite artist Spitz.I bought a score and tried to practice their songs, but I was not good at reading the score and couldn't do anything.
So when I brought the score to the piano teacher, he told me the code to play the song.For example, if you have a C code, it will be an accompaniment if you attach a domiso chord.I learned to be able to reproduce all songs, even if I couldn't play as with the melody and chords.This was a big discovery.I was not good at playing someone's score accurately, but I realized that I was good at playing freely in my own way.
After that, I got into it at a stretch and started composing.When visiting elementary school classes, I sometimes played the original song to Kenji Miyazawa's poem "Yamanashi" with the proposal of the teacher, and played on the piano according to the classroom reading.That is my starting point as a creator.In junior high school, I entered the classic guitar club and worked not only on performances but also for composition and arrangement.It was around that time that I decided to go to the music college.
However, when I entered the music college, there were a lot of people from all over the country, as well as the sense and experience, as well as the talent of talent with absolute pitch.At this time, I was able to show the difference in my ability and felt frustrated that what I had done so far was like a play.
After that, when I was in my third year of college, I participated in a game production workshop that Nintendo was held for students.I remember that Miyamoto, the creator of Super Mario Bros. and President Iwata at the time, was giving a lecture.So I learned games for one year and started thinking that there was such a way.After that, I got a job at a game company with new graduates.
That's why I didn't want to be a game of game music from the beginning, but I went to various things and happened to be able to get results.I was guided by those who admit myself and walked this far.
Takahashi: Are there any composers who were particularly influenced?Listening to Nishiki's songs, you can feel the influence of European music from the 17th and 18th century everywhere.
Nishiki: In junior high school club activities, there were many opportunities to touch Bach's songs.Bach's music is mathematical and is made by combining a number of clear harmony like a puzzle.On the other hand, since it is a person who created a lot of religious music, it reminds me a world that transcends mathematical theory.I remember he was very impressed as a junior high school student.
Takahashi: Nintendo Switch version "OCTOPATH TRAVELER" has developed a story that focuses on eight protagonists, but in the smartphone version of "Octopath Traveler Continent Continent", players have a large number of characters selected by players.Therefore, it is difficult to develop a scenario like the Switch version.Therefore, there are stories that focus on each land, events that occur to residents, and the lives of the bosses in each story and inner conflicts.How did such a change in the scenario structure affect the composition?
Nishiki: In the Switch version, music was prepared according to the themes of each of the eight protagonists.The intro of the battle song is also different for each character, and music in each region was composed with consciousness of extension of the theme of the protagonists.On the other hand, in the smartphone version, stories are developed mainly by enemy characters, so music making focuses on enemies.The important thing is to be aware that even if you cut out each scene, it will be established as a music due to the nature of the smartphone game where content is added in real time.
In console games, the story takes time, so we value music dynamics.Some music has a small number of sounds, while others have a large formation and gorgeous music.On the other hand, smartphone games only play 5 to 10 minutes a day, so the depth of each song is more important than dynamics.I am making music separately with the difference between such a platform.
If you compare, console games are like a course dish that changes from appetizers to main, and smartphone games are like a bowl dish that is completed on one dish.In the case of "OCTOPATH TRAVELER Continent Continent", it is difficult to drop because there are some elements, but rather, while being aware of the music that fits the latter one dish, it is necessary to incorporate the good points of the former.Did.
Takahashi: Please tell us about the theme of each boss that appears in "Octopath Traveler Championship".First of all, the "Greedy Witch" Helminia's theme was impressive in the first half of the battle scene where a quiet and heavy Aria flows.Perhaps because the story was a mafia, I felt it contained the music of Italian movies and the motif of Italian opera.
Nishiki: I'm conscious to some extent, but I didn't intend to make it in Italian like Enrio Moricone or Nino Rota.Helminia is a character whose only belief in her painful past experience has become wealth.She's weakness, which hurt others like wealth, and at the same time, the complex is her strength.With a sad melody, it has been an opera -like tune to express these two aspects, such as ferocious and ferocious.
Takahashi: The "Hero" Titas theme "feels like it incorporates elements of German music such as Bach's choral.At the beginning, the noise reminiscent of Alva Noto is cool and cool to enhance the tension.
Nishiki: The story of Titas has a strong religious color, so I chose chorus.His distorted justice is common to the so -called power harassment boss.As a result of his ideals that the world should be, a character that planted fear in others would have been born.In order to express the distorted power that crushes the surroundings, we dare to make noise.There is a aim in a beautiful chorus that makes you feel terrifying.
Takahashi: "The theme of the" playwright "Arguust" began with an impressive beginning reminiscent of Bestben's symphony.Regarding the character of the Argust, I guess Nishiki -san also had many sympathy as a creator.
Nishiki: I can understand the suffering that Argust has for manufacturing.As a result of escaping from there, it is the impression that he has fallen into the darkness.The theme of Argust started with music in the play he makes, rather than applying music to his character.I think he had no choice but to play his fictional himself from the pressure of manufacturing.So it's rather a theme of his play rather than his own theme.
Takahashi: The theme of "Hao" Purdis III "has the impression that he is overwhelmed by intimidating.This guy is different from the boss so far!When.
Nishiki: In order to express it musically, I used a method called Bartok Pizzikart.This is a way to play so strongly that the string hits the fingerboard, unlike a normal pizzikart that plays the string with your finger.In the case of a large instrument such as a contrabass or cello, it sounds like a whip.By putting it at the beginning, I expressed Pardis's violent feeling.
Takahashi: There are a lot of comfortable songs that will not get tired of listening for a long time in the theme of each region that continued to be used in the Switch version.In particular, the theme of the "Frostland region" and "Olsa, which is not written" is somewhat Japanese -like chords and melody motifs everywhere.In this way, I felt that the fact that the motifs linked to the existing content in the memories of Japanese players and the image of everyday scenery would enhance the suction power in the story, but is that intended?
Nishiki: The reason for it feels like Japanese is in the four harmony."Four times relationship" refers to the relationship with the fourth sound, which starts with the start, that is, a d and a fu.The Japanese seem to feel nostalgic in four times, and are also known as Joe Hisaishi's frequently used sounds.As a typical example, "the wind road" is used abundantly 4 times.As a result of expressing nostalgia in this way, I think that the impression that it was Japanese -like for the Japanese.
Takahashi: In the final chapter scenario of the Continent championship, "All of them," Battle of Boss, the "Hao" Purdis III "from the progress of the battle," Extracting everything "," When deciding to be prepared "The song changes, as "the person who succeeds the blood of the genie" and "the person who stands at the end of the journey".
The 33 -second folklore motif enters the 33rd "Standing at the end of the journey" flowing in the counterattack mode after the line of Araune, and the scenery of the journey that we have followed floats in the mind.I am immersed in the heroism of fighting with the thoughts of the killed sister and the people I met there.I was impressed by the stunning storytelling of the timing of the music introduction and the exquisite cooperation of the game scenario.How was these productions realized by adjusting them?
Nishiki: Actually, I didn't know anything about the production until I played the game.I was only asked to be a battle song in Pardis, and I didn't know that "the person who succeeded the blood of the genie" composed in the Switch version and the "who stands at the end of the journey" will be used.
The game against Pardis is the most exciting scene, so it is a production that the production team intends so that players who know the original can empathize more.It is the nature of the composer to think that it is courtesy of customers to prepare a new song every time, but as a user, songs that are thoughtful than new songs sometimes have more tension.Maybe I didn't tell me in anticipation of it.
Music that humans do not need to make
Yukito Morikawa (Morikawa): The music of "Octopath Traveler" has many live performances by orchestras.Is it difficult to use digital sound sources like DTM?
Nishiki: Demonstration is made with DTM.At that time, the sounds and impossible sounds that can be driven are clear.If you sample the sound of the violin or flute with a machine and play with a synthesizer, you will feel like you are lying.Unlike a case that has the sound of the synthesizer itself like a techno or a house, there is a limit to the sound of a real orchestra that moves human hearts.
Morikawa: Is that common in the world of game music?
Nishiki: I think most perception is.For example, the old game music was Pico Pico Sound, but it certainly moved the hearts of people.At that time, the constraints were to be expressed in the so -called synth tone, and we pursued possibilities in it.It has evolved its own before forming a genre called chip tune.Because modern game music has no such restrictions, the sound represented by a synthesizer may not be stuck in the human heart.I think it's just a recognition of the sound of the composition test stage.
Morikawa: The same is true for the development of game graphics.In the past, what was expressed in dots, but became real in 3D with the evolution of hardware, so it seems that the lie is outstanding.By the way, did Nishiki have a great sense of classical skills in making game music?
Nishiki: How is it?Of course, there are some parts that have been helped by the experience of learning the piano since childhood and the composition method cultivated at the music college, but my specialty is to analyze what the users are looking for and the flow of the times.I think.
Morikawa: It may be producer temperament.
Nishiki: Maybe.What kind of music and when will the customer react?It is the most pleasure when it becomes exactly what I envisioned.You can order it from others, but for now, it's the most likely to do it yourself, so I'm composing myself.
Morikawa: Like Mr. Nishiki, a composer under the producer Nishiki.
Nishiki: It's actually the easiest if you can live only and live.
Morikawa: I was impressed that the game characters were analyzed in detail.When composing game music, is it easier to make a lot of target information?
Nishiki: It's not a good idea, but we'll find out the essential information and go aggressively.For users, it's a task to find what is important in "Octopath Traveler".If you try to cover all elements with music, you will lose sight of the essence, so I think it is important to be able to quickly extract only the necessary information.
Morikawa: The reason why the sound of a different instrument was assigned to the eight protagonists is to express the essential information.
Nishiki: That's right.Eight people have a unique theme, and in the conversation scene before the boss war, a dedicated intro flows for each hero.When the user hears it, it is necessary to recognize it as a variation of the main character's theme, but by then only a few themes for each character will flow.To take advantage of these productions, an easy -to -understand icon indicating the character was needed.
For example, the character called Tresa uses harmonica sounds, so I do not use harmonica as much as possible in other songs.In addition, the sound of the piano is assigned to the character called Hanit.However, I want to use piano for various songs, so the song "Piano solo" is limited to the Hannit theme.
Morikawa: I pay attention to the color when designing a game character.Humans recognize color information first than names and shapes, so that alone can be a character.The device of applying the instrument according to the theme of the character may also have something to do with the physiological recognition of such animals.
Nishiki: I think there is something like a personality image received from the sound of the instrument.For example, I think that few people think of a bad character from the tone of harmonica.By using such a context, I was aware that I could somehow understand the character's character just by listening to music.
Morikawa: Why do people feel nostalgia in four times?Personally, I am interested in the physiological mechanism that the brain creates such emotional value.If AI can learn not only the upper side like a melody line, but also such a level of concepts, it should be involved in making music at a deeper level.
One of the reasons why the second AI boom was withered was because that part could not be symbolized well.After that, the deep learning that appeared in the third AI boom was innovative because it was able to throw it into AI.On the premise that humans cannot completely symbolize what they think, giving up on symbolization has suddenly improved the learning accuracy of AI.
Perhaps they can understand in a way that humans can't imagine, even if they don't symbolize the law of music.I think that there is a time when AI is involved in the field of art.What is AI in composition for Nishiki?
Nishiki: I look forward to music that can only be made because of AI.I think there are many music that composers don't need to write over time.For example, it is not necessary for humans to make BGM that is nothing to add because it is lonely when editing a video.AI may be acting on such work.That doesn't mean that AI music will be completely replaced by human music.I think it will be evaluated as its own value, as if a vocaloid like Hatsune Miku appeared, as it did not become an alternative to human singing voices.
Morikawa: In recent game development, AI has begun to be used for simple debugging and QA -like people.Even if you can't do anything comparable to a human top creator, you might be able to take AI if you create a mob character that is nothing like the BGM mentioned earlier.In the game industry, the introduction of AI is relatively delayed.What about the music industry?
Nishiki: I think the music industry is too late.In Japan, the value of struggling with people's hands is strong, so the introduction of technology that helps work efficiency may be delayed.The owner of flexible thinking that can quickly incorporate new technologies into their lives will change the times.
Morikawa: I expect such enlightenment from Nishiki's generation.
Writer: Ritsuko Kawai / Ritsuko Kawai